theory on playing draws oop

Theory on playing draws OOP as the non aggressor, both in multi-way and headsup-pots-

I’m writing this because I’m on a plane to Seattle and don’t have any internet. I’m bored as hell and thought I should share a concept that I’ve been thinking about lately.

Assume this situation-

100bbs, 6 max. 100NL

Villain opens 3.5x from MP (he is a TAG regular who seems straightforward and not really too tricky). Donkish button calls along, you call from the BB with whatever drawing hand- let’s say 67 for example. While PF can be debatable, let’s not and just assume that you decided to call for whatever reason.

Many players call preflop in these situations. While this is debatable (as stated previously), very often do you see many players make broad postflop mistakes in these instances, oftentimes due to having few if no plan(s) at all postflop. There are a variety of options I’ve been thinking about lately, on different flop textures.

Always have a plan…remember this. While you may not exactly draw out every single flop and the occurrence of each play, having a general gameplan (both in a micro and macro sense- that is, in a broad spectrum and thoughts of your overall ranges, as well as a plan for this hand as it plays out (which, in turn, will fit into your overall game plan).

($10.50)Flop: Assume a variety of flops occur. Think about this one-

3TJ

Very often do I see many small stakes players check/call. I think this sets up a variety of problems, many of which are common sense. I’ll write a few out here-
-You probably aren’t going to get paid if you hit your flush…that is, villain will shut down in most instances (be it check behind if you check to him on a flush turn, and/or fold to a lead).
-Along with that statement, very awkward turn plans- Are you leading into him if you hit your flush? What other hands are you doing this with? What hands do you hope to extract from and further, what are you going to do if raised? Are you checking to him? Are you just going to bet the river yourself if he checks behind? As stated, c/c-ing this flop leaves for very awkward turn play.
-Balance. While this isn’t a gigantic part of a SSNL players game, it should at least be thought about. Many players (even high stakes regulars) can be unbalanced (horribly so) and still beat the game handily. Very rarely will players at a SSNL game dive through HEM/PT and dissect each regular’s leaks, and devise a counter strategy. You just don’t see it often. WITH THAT SAID-
Balance is still an interesting component to think about. If you are one who seems horribly unbalanced, your play is often easy to read in a very traditional/exploitive sense. As with the previous two reasons for c/c-ing being problematic, balance is certainly one to consider when you decide to lead into the aggressor on such a turn when it improves you. Just think about what other hands you’re doing this with and you’ll see that there aren’t going to be too many non-flushes out there.

Now, with this all said, what do we do? It seems as if check/folding the flop with this draw seems a tad weak, right? I mean, isn’t that one of the reasons why we called to begin with? The only problem is that these so called deceptive hands aren’t really deceptive at all, at least in this sense.

There are some strategies we can do to both broaden our ranges as well as create some different semibluff opportunities though.

I’ll copy/paste the same scenario so you don’t forget-

MP (std TAG) raises $3.5. BTN (donk) calls $3.5, you call $2.5 in the BB with 67

Flop: 3TJ, your plan?

1- We can donk it. Remember, the board is 3TJ and we hold 67 after calling a raise out of position. Here in this situation, we can donk the flop (that is, to bet into the PFR). It’s a nice line that I think you can use with a variety of hands, not just flush draws. The second you check/call the flop in most SSNL games, your hand range will be limited to hands such as Jx or draws such as clubs, KQ, 89, etc. Rarely will you be reverse floating, rarely will you check/call something as strong as JT/sets here nor a super draw such as 89 and the like. Donking this flop allows you to donk a wider range of hands, which is always beneficial in an overall gameplan point of view (that is, your donking range does not only include hands that are in your b-3b range but also medium hands and draws that you can bet/fold). With that said, villan CANNOT simply raise your donk with abandon, especially given the fact that you’ve donked into two others.

It also allows you to play most turns fairly easily (and same with flop- if you’re raised, it’s a pretty easy fold from either player. Our hand does not stand up well from an equity stance against either’s raising range).

2- We check/raise. This option is fine as well, as it creates a semi-bluff opportunity and allows us to further broaden our range. There are, however, a few problems with check/raising-
a. We sometimes get blown off our hand if we are 3-bet. While this isn’t a huge loss, a flush draw typically has at least 30% or so equity wise (obviously much much less if up against a higher flush draw).
b. Sometimes villains call and we’re forced to make tough decisions on the turn. I suppose we can just c/f.
c. We sometimes get into an awkward situation where we check to the PFR, he bets, donkey calls, and then what? Are we going to c/r huge? I think at that point, c/c-ing almost becomes better. I’m still unsure of this though.
d. Actually, after rethinking things, I’m not so sure I like c/r-ing as much. But I think its still okay to a degree.

I think overall, I like the donking plan the best. I like to donk a lot of boards and I think my overall gameplan/range is pretty decent. As stated previously, I think that having a wider range will absolutely allow you to do more things postflop. And a flush draw in this situation doesn’t have to merely compose of your donking range. Here, I think I’d donk KQ, clubs, weaker straight draws such as 89, Q9 (if I ever made it that far), Jx (where x= Q/K/A/9/whatever, doubt I’ll make it here with J2 but meh), JT+, sets, and super draws (fd+sd or so).

Also, sorry if all these thoughts seem unorganized. I’m pretty tired and hopefully you’re still following this random rambling.

I’ll go through turn plans now.

I think the cool thing about both check/calling and/or donking is that you can use extra cards as ‘outs’. Say you decide to check/call the flop (you check, PFR bets, donk folds, you call). And as stated before, you don’t necessarily have to just be c/c-ing flush draws or what have you. If I made it to KQ in this specific spot (same situation as above, just with KQ instead of 67s), I don’t mind playing it the same (either donking or c/c-ing, sometimes c/r-ing). The nice thing about KQ or straight draws or even weaker hands such as gutters is that against many SSNL opponents, your play is going to be face up. That is, you’re going to bet the flush when you have it and check it when you miss. With that said, say you had KQ in this situation instead of 67s and decide to c/c the flop.

Turn: 2
You donk into him on the turn. Very interesting, no? You can use these flush cards as extra outs with KQ, not just the A and the 9. And as I said, many of your opponents are going to sigh and fold a large portion of their range.

This can obviously be used in headsup pots as well, I just chose to give the example in a multiway format. I would definitely be more hesitant to use this play had PFR bet, donk called, then we overcalled with such a hand.

Here is really my main question though, and the basis/question behind this entire ramble. Assume this situation-

Folded to BTN who raises 3x on the button. SB (donkey) calls. You call A9 from the BB. Debatable again, but who cares? One thing I always advocate during coaching sessions is having your own preflop style. As long as you can justify your raises, I’m not going to bitch at you for opening or calling too light. Now, if you’re making a gigantic fundamental mistake (3-betting UTG raisers with 22 and calling off your stack against a TAG or something), I usually always say something…but as far as I’m concerned, people can open or fold as many hands as they prefer. Whatever they care to do, meh.

Ok, with that little tangent over, you have A9 in the BB against a BTN raise and a donkey call. I decided to make this a mult. Pot because if it’s headsup, it’s less likely that you’re going to check/call the flop (not saying that you can’t, just that it’s more rare).

($10.50)Flop: T2J
SB checks, you check, BTN bets $8.5, SB folds, you call (debatable, but whatever)

($27.50)Turn: 6
GIN! Your play??

As stated before, a lot of players will donk out here. And there are obviously valid reasons. Villains will check behind a large portion of his range, even those that have good equity against us still (ie. A set). And if we decided to peel with the non nut-flush draw (that is, some lower flush draw), villain can often check behind with the Ac, which could spell disaster for us on the river.

Do we still donk? I think that I prefer checking in a balance sense, but I’m still unsure of the play. Here are my reasons-
-As stated, I’m usually check/raising or donking a set on the flop. By c/c-ing, my range is more weighted towards draws and more marginal hands. I know I said that I include Jx in my donking range on the flop but that doesn’t mean I’d always do it with that such hand. So my hand range is typically going to be pretty marginal, and I’d say I check most all hands to him in general (although I’d be apt to leading a semibluff hand like KQ on the turn perhaps).
-I think which turn card is pretty important. Had it been something like a King or Ace that completes our flush (obviously we’d have to have a lower flush draw for the ace to come on the turn, having two Ac is impossible), we might be more inclined to check again to villain. We will allow him to both hang himself further (ie. He will bet the turn with all value hands as well as bluffs and semibluffs) while still disguising the strength of our hand. When it’s a relative blank though, its obviously harder to get him to barrel something away.

But do I c/c or c/r? I suppose c/r seems better, though it depends on stacks. I think that c/c is actually a pretty cool play though (with checking most every river). I don’t really see many using this line with a flush and I think it still portrays a weaker range, allowing our opponents to both barrel with value AND bluffs (if he were to ever do so. Sure, if he’s bluffing, he’s unlikely to fire a third barrel, but he’s not going to call a check/raise anyways).

Anyways, I know I’ve written a ton on this subject and I don’t want to waste your time with more tangents. I still have a lot more thoughts as well…I’ll have to save it for the next plane ride.